Elle Beau ❇︎
3 min readNov 18, 2021

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It's not from becoming more “feminized” (and btw, what evidence do you have of that?). It's from becoming more socially disconnected than men in previous generations - which is why it's effecting women to some extent as well - they too are even less socially connected than in the past.

I don't know why you think it's my point about education. I'm simply reporting what researchers who have studied this have determined from their research.

And you did make claims - you made claims that I was making an erroneous correlation and that single mothers were actually the problem and then decided that theyeven more than married mothers have some biological (and not sociological) prediliction to encourage Man Box traits. But I don't want to get sidetracked by that. Back to the main point.

If you believe that any human being should be bullied and policed into being someone other than who they naturally are and that this is somehow to the benefit of the society, I feel very sorry for you. I'm not saying this to be antagonistic or condescending -I just find that reprehensible prima facie. I also think that it's just pretty clear from the evidence not only about suicide but about the other things mentioned in this study and others about how these types of Man Box demands drive anti-social behaviors that harm boys and men and lead to depression, substance abuse, risky behaviors and violence. And there's a ton of data from many other research studies that confirm these same findings.

What exactly is the good that comes from societal pressures for boys and men to conform to these norms? And why do you believe any of this is other than cultural? In other cultures and in other time frames, norms for men are and were significantly different. Prior to the 4th C BCE Egyptian women were considered the head of the household and they did most of the business transactions. Men stayed home and did the weaving. In the Mosuo of China, there is no such thing as a husband or a father. Everyone lives in the house of their mother or grandmother and there is no formal marriage. Men visit their lovers and then go home again and for as long as those relationships work and couples never live together. Mothers are the center of the culture and men help to raise the children of their sisters and cousins. Women do most of the farming. Men build houses and tend animals.

Imagining that patriarchy is timeless and inevitable (when it's really only 6-9 k years old) is just another one of the ways that patriarchy has tried to justify itself. BTW, patriarchy refers to more than just a historical power diffential between man and women, although that is a part of it, it's primarily a dominance based hierarchy that is maintained through intimidation and coercion where those with traditional power ensure that they get to keep it - a social system which is very new to humans arising around the time of agriculture. This is my area of expertise and I've written probably 45 articles on it so I'm happy to direct you to a few for more on this topic.

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Elle Beau ❇︎
Elle Beau ❇︎

Written by Elle Beau ❇︎

I'm a bitch, I'm a lover, I'm a child, I'm a mother, I'm a sinner, I'm a saint. I do not feel ashamed. I'm your hell, I'm your dream, I'm nothing in between.

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