So, lots of people go for people who are "out of their league." It doesn't indicate cultural messaging to men to "give that women you don't actually feel any vibe for a chance" of which there are ZERO examples. There is ample cultural messaging for women to "just give him a chance. He's a nice guy. Maybe you'll like him better once you get to know him." That's only a difference between how men and women think because most men don't know shit about this dynamic and most women have dealt with it their entire lives.
Of course it's a generalization that most incels have never even tried to talk to a woman, but if you knew squat about social dynamics, you'd know that "most" counts for a lot.
Women don't claim harassment because they aren't attracted to a man. The stupid misogynistic idea that harassment is fine if the guy is attractive is completely clueless and wrong. If you'd had adults bothering you, trying to touch and comment about your body, and bothering you to access it every fucking day since you were 10 years old, you wouldn't begin to say something so stupid and wrong.
The one thing you are correct about is that most men don't know how to talk to random women because there are very few circumstances and ways of doing that which are actual OK and not infringing on her right to just go about her day without being fucking bothered by some stranger who wants to fuck her even though he doesn't know her or anything about her. Yes, you can have two camps because there's a huge difference between guys who now how to be appropriate, when to be appropriate and all the other dumbasses who think that women owe them their time and attention.
If more men would actually pay attention to the VAST array of women saying exactly what they want in a man rather than other stupid guys who know nothing about it but are sure they know (because then they'd have to do some self-inventory rather than just blame the woman), they'd be fine.
In nearly all of these incel cases, the guy in question was ruthlessly teased by MEN, and yet they went on to kill women. that's why I said the true issue is wanting to succeed in male hierarchies.
You are correct that the the actual "let's help men" movement is distressingly small and there is way too much out there that preys on men who need guidance. More men need to band together and actually help each other. That's what I'd like to see - rather than the Tates and Petersons of the world getting rich by stoaking men's insecurities and never really actually helping them. Both are deeply insecure, deeply depressed and alone feeling and they try to stave that off with the BS that they do, but it doesn't really work for long. But hey, at least they are getting rich off it.
